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	<title>Comments on: Programme Overload</title>
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	<description>Life at the Intersection of Culture and Christianity</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 08:30:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: C. Holland</title>
		<link>http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/programme-overload/comment-page-1#comment-4694</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Holland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/?p=724#comment-4694</guid>
		<description>@Grady: I agree, and funny you mention the replication concept...true story: my college group leader chastised me for &quot;going too fast&quot; when I met my other half.  Why, you ask?  Because we were holding hands after dating for a bit--and he and his girlfriend took a year to do that.  It wasn&#039;t a restrictive church setting, just that he felt his own timing and structure of courting was the &quot;right way&quot; and anything else must be bad, though we weren&#039;t doing anything inappropriate.  Curiously, he married and unfortunately divorced this girl; we&#039;re still married over a decade later.  I don&#039;t say that with relish, just to show that &quot;his way&quot; sadly didn&#039;t even work for him.

Looking forward to your post on Monday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Grady: I agree, and funny you mention the replication concept&#8230;true story: my college group leader chastised me for &#8220;going too fast&#8221; when I met my other half.  Why, you ask?  Because we were holding hands after dating for a bit&#8211;and he and his girlfriend took a year to do that.  It wasn&#8217;t a restrictive church setting, just that he felt his own timing and structure of courting was the &#8220;right way&#8221; and anything else must be bad, though we weren&#8217;t doing anything inappropriate.  Curiously, he married and unfortunately divorced this girl; we&#8217;re still married over a decade later.  I don&#8217;t say that with relish, just to show that &#8220;his way&#8221; sadly didn&#8217;t even work for him.</p>
<p>Looking forward to your post on Monday.</p>
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		<title>By: Grady Bauer</title>
		<link>http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/programme-overload/comment-page-1#comment-4692</link>
		<dc:creator>Grady Bauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/?p=724#comment-4692</guid>
		<description>Great post.  I&#039;m posting one on Monday called &quot;Is God vanilla?&quot; and it&#039;s about the same topic.

Can you imagine asking someone how they met their wife?  How they fell in love?  How they got engaged?  And then trying to replicate it....it would look stupid to try to take something so natural and organic and make it a process....but we do this with His bride all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  I&#8217;m posting one on Monday called &#8220;Is God vanilla?&#8221; and it&#8217;s about the same topic.</p>
<p>Can you imagine asking someone how they met their wife?  How they fell in love?  How they got engaged?  And then trying to replicate it&#8230;.it would look stupid to try to take something so natural and organic and make it a process&#8230;.but we do this with His bride all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: C. Holland</title>
		<link>http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/programme-overload/comment-page-1#comment-4661</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Holland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/?p=724#comment-4661</guid>
		<description>@Kevin: &quot;Adoption ministry&quot;? It&#039;s one thing for an individual couple to feel led to an international adoption, but I don&#039;t feel it should be promoted in the place of missions ministry.  It sounds like, &quot;We&#039;ll convert your country by taking your children to our country.&quot;  And what a pressure on the adoptive parents if a church has paid for them to adopt and the adopted child eventually does not become a Christian!

@Karl: Thanks for the insight.  I&#039;m glad I&#039;m not the only one feeling this.

@Roxie: I appreciate your candor about a mission field I&#039;m embarrassed to admit I hadn&#039;t even considered before.  My nationals here would be equally insulted if a foreigner picked up the bill for the same reasons.  In fact, my nationals expect to pay for VBS here (they see it like a day camp, which you would also pay for); when an American tried to offer their VBS for free, no one would attend.  Once he started charging, the camp is now always overbooked.  And yes, expectations versus accountability is on the short-list of blog posts. ;)

@Mentanna: Welcome to the blog!  And no, it&#039;s not cynical.  It is true, because numbers are easier to measure than people&#039;s spiritual growth and maturity.  The first question we&#039;re always asked is, &quot;How many do you have on Sunday?&quot;  I&#039;ve never, ever, EVER been asked, &quot;How are your people&#039;s spiritual growth? Are they maturing in their walk?&quot;  Yet that&#039;s the important part because seats filled does not equal the same number of active, maturing disciples of Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kevin: &#8220;Adoption ministry&#8221;? It&#8217;s one thing for an individual couple to feel led to an international adoption, but I don&#8217;t feel it should be promoted in the place of missions ministry.  It sounds like, &#8220;We&#8217;ll convert your country by taking your children to our country.&#8221;  And what a pressure on the adoptive parents if a church has paid for them to adopt and the adopted child eventually does not become a Christian!</p>
<p>@Karl: Thanks for the insight.  I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;m not the only one feeling this.</p>
<p>@Roxie: I appreciate your candor about a mission field I&#8217;m embarrassed to admit I hadn&#8217;t even considered before.  My nationals here would be equally insulted if a foreigner picked up the bill for the same reasons.  In fact, my nationals expect to pay for VBS here (they see it like a day camp, which you would also pay for); when an American tried to offer their VBS for free, no one would attend.  Once he started charging, the camp is now always overbooked.  And yes, expectations versus accountability is on the short-list of blog posts. <img src='http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@Mentanna: Welcome to the blog!  And no, it&#8217;s not cynical.  It is true, because numbers are easier to measure than people&#8217;s spiritual growth and maturity.  The first question we&#8217;re always asked is, &#8220;How many do you have on Sunday?&#8221;  I&#8217;ve never, ever, EVER been asked, &#8220;How are your people&#8217;s spiritual growth? Are they maturing in their walk?&#8221;  Yet that&#8217;s the important part because seats filled does not equal the same number of active, maturing disciples of Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: mentanna</title>
		<link>http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/programme-overload/comment-page-1#comment-4659</link>
		<dc:creator>mentanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/?p=724#comment-4659</guid>
		<description>honestly, i think the reason we are so quick to grab onto the next silver bullet is because a program is easier than prayer.  sitting before him, praying for those around him, waiting for his direction and leadership is hard.  why not just by a book and try what someone else has tired?  easy. 

cynical or true?  a little of both?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>honestly, i think the reason we are so quick to grab onto the next silver bullet is because a program is easier than prayer.  sitting before him, praying for those around him, waiting for his direction and leadership is hard.  why not just by a book and try what someone else has tired?  easy. </p>
<p>cynical or true?  a little of both?</p>
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		<title>By: Roxie in Wisconsin</title>
		<link>http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/programme-overload/comment-page-1#comment-4654</link>
		<dc:creator>Roxie in Wisconsin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/?p=724#comment-4654</guid>
		<description>As I read your article, I kept thinking of the reply I might make... and found that you stated it very well in your last paragraph.

Again - I find similarities as we work in North America with Native Americans. Working within the dominant culture is confusing, especially when the Native American culture where we serve is primarily below the surface (think iceberg).  

For instance...  Random Acts of Kindness has been popular in the last few years.  In the nearby town here in Wisconsin, the &quot;white&quot; church began to use this as an outreach to the community. When someone from the church offered to pick up the bill for a Native couple at a restaurant, the Native couple were greatly offended that someone felt they couldn&#039;t pay the bill... 

In another instance, a kids&#039; Discipleship curriculum was promoted to our mission agency as &quot;Cross-cultural.&quot;  The only thing cross-cultural was that the characters were of different ethnic groups (none of which were Native American).  Nothing was done to teach in a narrative, concrete method, which would have been much more fitting of the cross-cultural tag line.

I guess what I&#039;m saying is that it&#039;s easy to want a &quot;quick fix&quot; - a program. What&#039;s really needed is to strip away the surface efforts, and - as you stated - to concentrate on the genuine relationship building and discipling, which takes time and perseverance, not bells and whistles. 

Now - this would be a perfect segue into the tyranny of meeting expectations of supporting churches versus accountability...  perhaps another day...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I read your article, I kept thinking of the reply I might make&#8230; and found that you stated it very well in your last paragraph.</p>
<p>Again &#8211; I find similarities as we work in North America with Native Americans. Working within the dominant culture is confusing, especially when the Native American culture where we serve is primarily below the surface (think iceberg).  </p>
<p>For instance&#8230;  Random Acts of Kindness has been popular in the last few years.  In the nearby town here in Wisconsin, the &#8220;white&#8221; church began to use this as an outreach to the community. When someone from the church offered to pick up the bill for a Native couple at a restaurant, the Native couple were greatly offended that someone felt they couldn&#8217;t pay the bill&#8230; </p>
<p>In another instance, a kids&#8217; Discipleship curriculum was promoted to our mission agency as &#8220;Cross-cultural.&#8221;  The only thing cross-cultural was that the characters were of different ethnic groups (none of which were Native American).  Nothing was done to teach in a narrative, concrete method, which would have been much more fitting of the cross-cultural tag line.</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;m saying is that it&#8217;s easy to want a &#8220;quick fix&#8221; &#8211; a program. What&#8217;s really needed is to strip away the surface efforts, and &#8211; as you stated &#8211; to concentrate on the genuine relationship building and discipling, which takes time and perseverance, not bells and whistles. </p>
<p>Now &#8211; this would be a perfect segue into the tyranny of meeting expectations of supporting churches versus accountability&#8230;  perhaps another day&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Dahlfred</title>
		<link>http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/programme-overload/comment-page-1#comment-4653</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Dahlfred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/?p=724#comment-4653</guid>
		<description>Great post. Situation here in Thailand is very similar. And I sense that some Thai pastors are also getting jaded about &quot;the next best thing&quot; seminars
.-= Karl Dahlfred´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dahlfred.com/en/blogs/gleanings-from-the-field/317-inoculated-against-the-gospel-and-other-side-effects-of-the-sinners-prayer&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;“Inoculated Against the Gospel” and other Side Effects of the Sinner’s Prayer&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. Situation here in Thailand is very similar. And I sense that some Thai pastors are also getting jaded about &#8220;the next best thing&#8221; seminars<br />
<span class="cluv"> Karl Dahlfred´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.dahlfred.com/en/blogs/gleanings-from-the-field/317-inoculated-against-the-gospel-and-other-side-effects-of-the-sinners-prayer" rel="nofollow">“Inoculated Against the Gospel” and other Side Effects of the Sinner’s Prayer</a> </span></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Mullins</title>
		<link>http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/programme-overload/comment-page-1#comment-4652</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Mullins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionaryconfidential.com/?p=724#comment-4652</guid>
		<description>Very good article C. Every time I read your blog it reminds me very much of my ministry in Dublin, Ireland. We would be constantly asked what programs we were doing or have things forwarded to us to speed up the growth. Ironically, almost every program I&#039;ve ever seen used in the states has failed to live up to the hype.

In fact, the latest trend in the area that we&#039;re prepping to leave is &quot;adoption ministry.&quot; Churches with no missionaries and no church planting efforts are instead switching to adoption ministries, spending lots of money to send young American couples to Eastern Europe and Asia to pick out babies and somehow that is passed off as missionary ministry! No thanks.

I&#039;ll stick with slow growth, friendship-based, small-group to church plant based ministry. Thanks for the post.
.-= Kevin Mullins´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://life.outpoured.org/files/the_top_5_support_raising_mistakes.php#unique-entry-id-112&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Top 5 Support Raising Mistakes&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good article C. Every time I read your blog it reminds me very much of my ministry in Dublin, Ireland. We would be constantly asked what programs we were doing or have things forwarded to us to speed up the growth. Ironically, almost every program I&#8217;ve ever seen used in the states has failed to live up to the hype.</p>
<p>In fact, the latest trend in the area that we&#8217;re prepping to leave is &#8220;adoption ministry.&#8221; Churches with no missionaries and no church planting efforts are instead switching to adoption ministries, spending lots of money to send young American couples to Eastern Europe and Asia to pick out babies and somehow that is passed off as missionary ministry! No thanks.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stick with slow growth, friendship-based, small-group to church plant based ministry. Thanks for the post.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Kevin Mullins´s last blog ..<a href="http://life.outpoured.org/files/the_top_5_support_raising_mistakes.php#unique-entry-id-112" rel="nofollow">Top 5 Support Raising Mistakes</a> </span></p>
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